Tuesday, May 17, 2011

Dialogues with Socialists: Racism and Civil Rights

I recently took part in a highly engaging internet discussion of various ideas of racism, civil rights, socialism, and libertarianism with some friends of mine.  As all will be able to read below, the discussion turned to a debate which the author walked away from with the upper hand.  This debate is being posted here not for bragging rights, but as a piece meant to educate political and social thinkers on some of the hidden fundamentals of socialism and exactly where the collectivist mindset clashes with the libertarian or individualist mindset.

As a courtesy, all names other than the author’s have been replaced with aliases in order to protect the privacy of those involved.  There have been slight edits made only for the same of correcting spelling and punctuation errors.  All wording has been kept intact in order to protect the integrity of the debaters and their message, as well as to protect the integrity of the truth.  This dialogue actually occurred and I saved the original transcript, should those involved contest the accuracy of this presentation.

Soviet Socialist: [Link: YouTube video – Ron Paul: I Would Not Have Voted For the 1964 Civil Rights Act] Proof…. Case closed.

Moderate: He didn't admit to it. Case reopened.

Violent Pacifist: Mother fu..... [angry emoticon]

Soviet Socialist: He wants to get rid of these laws because they're "ancient history". If he is elected and goes through with it, what’s to keep some companies from taking advantage of that saying "there are no laws saying I can't" and then applying it to their hiring processes? This guy has no understanding of political economy...

Zach Foster: Yes he does; his ideas simply differ from yours and you're already on a high horse about it. Racism really is a thing of the past, and those who still uphold racist views are relics out of step with society. I'm with Moderate; Ron Paul never admitted to it. And finally, the civil rights act of 1964 was necessary at the time, but still did heavily infringe on state sovereignty. I say this was a necessary evil that the Feds had to step on the states because the southern states were stepping on their non-whites.

Socialist Worker: Soviet, I did not know you had a horse...

Anyhow, racism is not a thing of the past. It's still pretty alive and kicking, just that its more subtle and dressed up spiffy. And if challenging and calling out racist pricks for what it is means that Soviet gets a horse, then I want one too [smily emoticon].

Honestly, all I got from this interview was "Hey it's my 'individual liberty' to be a bigot-racist A-hole and government SHOULDN'T infringe on me if I want to be a prick and not hire or refuse services to people of color."

Silly rich white man.

Soviet Socialist: [to Zach] Um...WRONG. As I've stated before about Capitalism, and especially the US, Racism is one of the many means used by the ruling class to pit workers against each other and to make competition between them so they can use cheap labor. Your attitude of "racism is a thing of the past" fails miserably because as I recall the Tea Party, the epitome of racism, gets LARGE amounts of funding from corporations and massive media coverage (and support) from Fox. Paul may not be one, but racism tends to be a given with right wingers. Most of these right wingers are CEOs and WILL use a repeal of this law as an advantage. And don’t talk to me about "being on a high horse" and accusing random people for racism that isn't there, you damn hypocrite.

Moderate: People in high paying positions, corporate or government or wherever, these days are paid because of their knowledge, education, and experience. It does not matter what color you are today....if you can back up your job title...you can get the job. Using the race card is so....yesterday. Any idea how many Hispanic babies Ron Paul delivered in his hometown? To be a racist you must be caught in the act of doing a racist act...like burning crosses, waving Nazi flags, graffiti on walls. You can't just point a finger and say he's a racist......especially when he's just guilty of being white. Now making a statement like Socialist Worker did, "silly rich white man"...is more racist than how a man "might have voted".

Zach Foster: FACT: Most Americans are NOT RACIST. A small minority are. There are other and better shadow puppets to keep prisoners chained to the walls of Plato's cave than racism. Please don't call me a damn hypocrite, since I'm neither damned nor a hypocrite.

That's true, "silly rich white man" is pretty racist and altogether dismissive of a truly great man like Ron Paul. Anyone who's actually read a Ron Paul book wouldn't spout hate speech against him. HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INTELLECTUAL ARGUMENT AND AD HOMINEM ATTACKS. Ron Paul is not racist. He is simply one of the pacifists who would rather see change happen slowly and peacefully--all inclusive--than for it to happen quickly and violently in a sea of bitterness. I'm sorry that such pacifism is inconsistent with revolutionary ideology, but most thinking people don't think the way socialists do.

And really, the gov't CAN'T infringe on people's right to be bigots. They can't be forced to be good people, but only forced to obey laws. Furthermore Soviet, ask yourself what your revolution would do to these bigots once the proletariat comes to power?

Continued in Part 2: Jesus Christ and Karl Marx

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