Dialogues with Socialists: Jesus Christ and Karl Marx

Continued from Part 1: Racism and Civil Rights

Zach Foster: … And really, the gov't CAN'T infringe on people's right to be bigots. They can't be forced to be good people, but only forced to obey laws. Furthermore Soviet, ask yourself what your revolution would do to these bigots once the proletariat comes to power?

Soviet Socialist: The majority vote decides what to do with these people, not "my government", as an isolated minority making decisions on their definition of "morality" like what the tone of your text insinuates. And as I've mentioned before, Islamophobia and xenophobia have once again become very real and all inclusive phenomena within our society which denotes racism ever present here. QED racism is far from being a "thing of the past". Thirdly, we aren't speaking of violence and "gradual change", opportunism and reformism vs. "Machiavellian" politics...we are talking about racism and on if the Libertarian Party can provide. Stick with it. Stop attempting to find random opportunities to red bait. Fourthly, I don't condone Socialist Worker’s comment of the "rich white" stereotype but for the past thousands of years, prominent members of society have been WASPs, and when racism reignites, normally Caucasians don't get thrown into camps, pulled over at check points or are deported for being white. And lastly, in regards to the comment of people finding themselves in glorious positions because of alleged intelligence...come off it. Bush, Hitler, Caesar, Napoleon, Stalin, Franco and the CEOs of companies that DO NOT pay taxes (GE, Verizon, Chase, Bank of America, etc.) could NOT have possibly worked as hard as single mothers, immigrants, and residents of third world countries in the simple matter of trying to survive let alone have IQs anywhere near a gifted level. Fail. And don't be so rash as to mistake bitterness for a compassion for the downtrodden and a vendetta to the oppressors. If this was truly a great basis for intellectual thought, then Homer, Voltaire, Aristotle, Albert Einstein, Frederick Douglass, W.E.B. DuBois, and Steinbeck were all teenage cheerleaders on their periods.

Oh, and Jesus for that matter, since he DID rebel against that days law and order, shared compassion for sinners when others beat them down, and revolted against the "intelligent and glorious" leaders of the wealthier class.

Zach Foster: Alrighty then, I sense dodging on what I'm asking you. One more time: in regards to do with these people. Suppose YOU voted in the new society on what to do with bigots. What would your vote be? I'm not red baiting; I'm asking a question and you're avoiding giving a direct answer. What would you vote to be done with these bigots, and would others vote similarly?

FACT: Biggest Islamophobes I've ever encountered and whose works I've read are non-Muslims from the Middle East. Many are Jews and some are Christians. The find nothing wrong with Quranic teaching, especially since Surah Al Baqrah 2.62 teaches that all Muslims, Christians, Jews and Sabyans who believe in God will get into heaven. What they do have a problem with is the spread of medieval Islam, the way it’s practiced in Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, etc., because medieval Islam is still in the crusader mindset and has ignored its own peaceful scripture.

FACT: Bush, Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Nicolai Ceaucescu, Tito, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Franco, Napoleon, etc. worked 12-20 hour days. They were all @$$holes; all were warmongers while some were outright genocidal, WHICH IS BESIDE THE POINT, oh capitalist baiter. Still, their labor is DIFFERENT from the labor of a single mother or a factory worker, just like a doctor's labor is different from an artist's and a coal miner's, therefore, a head of state's labor cannot be compared to other kinds of labor except that most if not all heads of state, and CEOs, work just as long and just as intensely as whatever X, Y, or Z labor you want to compare it to.

FACT: In most of the above dictators' concentration camps, the vast overwhelming majority of prisoners were of the SAME RACE as their persecutors. The real difference was ideas: utopian National Socialism against Judaism, international socialism, homosexuality, etc.; utopian Marxist-Leninism versus capitalists, petty bourgeois socialists, and other counter-revolutionaries; monarchal Republicans versus fascist Nationalists, etc.

FACT: DuBois and Einstein were international socialists. Voltaire was a nobleman who favored social REFORM, NOT REVOLUTION. Homer, Aristotle, Douglass, and Steinbeck were social reformers who were PATRIOTIC to their respective STATE.

FACT: Jesus of Nazareth, known by over a billion as the Christ, and by an additional billion as a holy prophet, advocated kindness and HOLINESS because it is the will of GOD. Jesus the rabbi taught that GOD made things good, therefore we as His creations ought to be good. He also taught loyalty and fidelity to GOD (not the dialectic), to be a city on the hill and a bright shining light in order to help others return to the grace of GOD. He also said RENDER TO CAESAR THE THINGS THAT ARE CAESAR'S (i.e. taxes, citizenship, community service, etc.) AND TO GOD THE THINGS THAT ARE GOD’S=== (i.e. worship, devotion, the soul). Never once did Jesus advocate uprisings. Furthermore, Jesus taught that ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD, and that ALL SINNERS CAN RETURN TO RIGHTEOUSNESS AND INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD. Example: Saul persecuted Christians violently for years, until his conversion. He then became a devout Christian and prolific writer and preacher. Marxism teaches people to have compassion for other proles while holding a vendetta against the “oppressors.”

CONCLUSION: Many of your above-used analogies are marred with fallacies and are erroneous. I will now divert this conversation back to the MAIN IDEA: RON PAUL and the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

[smiley emoticon]

Moderate: You go Zach. Islamaphobia...we don't care about their skin color...or even the way they worship....it's the radical extreme terrorist lifestyle some have chosen. Us whiteys don't give a rat's @$$ about their freaking ultimate conservative clothing selections. We do care about the ones who mistreat women and treat them as if it's the middle ages still. They do have a lifestyle goal in mind for the world...I believe it's called something like "Sharia" or something close to that. I read it last week on someone else's post. It's all about world domination by a systematic infiltration of poor areas of a city. Befriending the poor and weak with their propaganda. Not my world... Don't go planning how you're going to take over my country. Funny Soviet, how you stand up for the rights of all these others...and none of them have asked you to do so on their behalf. Also, how you put down anything that currently has governmental power....what has our country done to you personally, to make you so bitter? ...And I don't want to hear about anyone else’s causes.....just your own personal experience that brought you to this point....and please remember...anything you read, or were taught to believe...is second hand.....I need firsthand experience.

Zach Foster: Moderate, here's a GREAT article I read about “revolutionary” mindsets in the 20th century. [Link: article – About Socialism and Socialists by Frank Chodorov]

Moderate: Thanks Zach.  That's a lot to read...I'll muddle through it.

Zach Foster: lol it takes about 10 mins

Next: What does this all mean? REALITY vs. [Red] fiction